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you

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that's about now who has their Travis

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Wall please leave okay come on you've

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got to acknowledge I asked these kind of

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questions because it gives me an idea of

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where to pitch the lecture and seriously

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about her kind of level I'm dealing with

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it in terms of your knowledge so till

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for the lady on the front row sorry

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don't a point I would never point you

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out but the lady the glasses on the

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who was had to travel the farthest

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distance to get here anybody over 30

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miles to get here today 20 miles welcome

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to the lymph meeting of Suppan I to kill

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the music Bret tonight we're very

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privileged to have the company of mr.

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Gary Heseltine Gary had his own personal

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UFO sighted in 1975 66 second and this

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was to have a profound effect on his

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life okay Gary like myself as a retired

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police officer he had a total of

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twenty-two years service I've spent much

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of the time as a detective 19 years so

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he's well used to interviewing people

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and record in statements now I'm sure

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like myself after this much experience

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he clearly possesses good judgment as to

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whether he's being told truth or being

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lied to now in 2002 we founded the proof

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of database which caters for serving and

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retired British police UFOs site in

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reports he's the founder and editor of

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UFO truth magazine and was the former

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editor of the online publication UFO

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monthly dot-com as well as the former

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co-editor of UFO data magazine now in

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2010 at washington DC was presented with

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the disclosure award by stephen

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Bassett's prg group and in 2012 was

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awarded the Exopolitics group award yeah

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he rarely gives talks and discussions

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worldwide on the subject of UFOs and for

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many years he's been working closely

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with the retired colonel charles help to

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piece together Britain's most famous UFO

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case which was the rendlesham forest

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incident of December 1980 gary has

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undoubtedly become one of Britain's most

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renowned UFO investigators and whilst

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he's probably used to giving talks at

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far larger venues than ours I'm

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absolutely delighted that he's traveled

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so very far to be able to join us here

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this evening

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so without further ado please give a

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warm safan welcome to mr. Gary Heseltine

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thank you thank you so what a lovely

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warm welcome carry on if you now it was

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a lovely welcome thank you very much air

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I do let your all around the country is

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the first time I've ever lectured in

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Wales so this is good for me it goes on

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to my ceiling of countries that I've now

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legend in which is about 15 now so I'm

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pleased and honored to be in Swansea on

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a serious note as was mentioned I had a

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child a Titan white hours 16 you were

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right for many years I put it out that I

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was 15 but then a chance meeting with my

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former best friend from school who

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hadn't seen in over 30 years last year

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when we got our heads together best

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around girlfriends of the time he

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actually said no that was the summer of

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76 when you were going out with this

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lady so it wasn't 75 and 76 August

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services all right so that's why it's

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changed so you were right and turn out

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to the wrong but it wasn't you right so

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basically Who am I now as I asked in the

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kind of warm up there's quite a lot of

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you who never heard of me or seen seen

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me before so in all seriousness I'll

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give you a bit of background between

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1983 1989 I was a royal air force police

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officer and I did predominantly

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two-thirds of that was spent what's

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called wire-walking what's called SD 814

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garden nuclear weapons okay so just in

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relation to just put your hands up a few

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of heard of the rendlesham forest

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incident I was quite a lot than even the

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people who don't know it right well

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Rendlesham forest is arguably the

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world's best case

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not just Britain's best case I would say

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it's up there arguably the world's best

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case because it happened all the three

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consecutive nights multiple military

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police officers Brown trace evidence

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radar evidence lots and lots of eater

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but I'm not here to talk about that as

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such but the job that they did those US

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Air Force police officers with the

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direct equivalent of what i did in the

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Royal Air Force police and in fact an

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area flower brook where i served in

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germany the design of the what was

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called in the RAF the supplementary

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storage area which is the nuclear

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bonkers is exactly the same way all

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exactly the same layout as the what they

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called weapon storage area wsa that they

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turned the Americans use for the nuclear

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bunkers exactly the same and I'm

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electron Rendlesham I've got a

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photograph where I went back after the

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bear's claws and I was allowed to go

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into this restricted area which was one

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of you know like microwaved lamb

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defenses so many guns point out here and

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I was just able to walk in and text some

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photographs it was a the bullies exactly

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the same design so that was the 83 289

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and then i joined the british transport

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police in 1989 and after four years

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became a detective became qualified

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after five years what's called a

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substantive detective and was the

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detective constable for the rest of my

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career until i reside in 2013 so 24

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years service 19 years of Detective I

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didn't want to go higher in the police

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because I didn't like the bureaucracy

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the pettiness and realistically I

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enjoyed interviewing people suspects and

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witnesses so I became a very specialized

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interviewer as time went on that was my

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back as it were so I I was trained as

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high as you could go in interview ok

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and that's something I I miss about the

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police but not nothing else really okay

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so in terms of my training I was trained

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in terms of psychology to look at

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witnesses body language things like that

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and basically in all the years that I

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did it you develop a sixth sense for

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when someone is telling you the truth

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and that can be corned a lot of it is a

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natural skill in terms of interview some

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people got it in to get some people are

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not very good you can be trained a

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little bit but basically to be a good

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interviewer you've got to have a natural

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flair and he's not everybody's cup of

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tea okay now I could have gone on for

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another six years when every tide in

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2013 I could have gone for me 30 years

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but by that time something compelled me

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to retire early and the circumstances

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with my second wife financially meant

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that I could retire early with melons on

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the after 24 years of my RAF pension

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that I took a chance and felt I'm going

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to follow my passion and try to make a

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difference so by creating the magazine

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that was my way of trying to do it

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something a bit different now i started

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my active research publicly in january

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2002 when i launched the proof force

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please their best proof or standing for

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please report in your force started with

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six cases involving 10 officers now

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we're 14 years on I've now got over 550

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cases involved in a thousand and fifty

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British police officers that's all and

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then I'm writing the book about them now

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as we speak almost hopefully you'll be

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out by the end of the year can't find a

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publisher anywhere then stream fully

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that isn't it we'll talk about how

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mainstream not interested in this

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subject and it doesn't

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make sense if you're doing well at

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something you normally get more

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attention but when i started the

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database in 2002 because i was still a

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serving police officer the national meet

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you were very interested in me lots of

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articles in national newspapers after

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two or three years they're not even

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though the numbers are going up by

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hundreds each year don't make sense

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unless you logically think that this

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somebody doesn't want this kind of

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credible information gap okay hence all

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of this frustration as to why I left and

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created the magazine the beauty that the

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magazine is that there's no overheads

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none of the experts that right columns

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again paired they don't do it

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voluntarily because they support my idea

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but this is where you come in because

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that I ring-fence a third of all monies

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that coming through subscriptions for

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UFO causes now initially that then

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financing conferences book in

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international flights from speakers and

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things like that hotels I book a ball up

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magazine so in a sense that created the

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funding mechanism but if we have

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thousands of thousands of people around

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the world buying into a an easing which

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you can just get by email it's so simple

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it could generate millions if we have

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thousands more LOL drop in the ocean for

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the amount of hits but people are

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reluctant to pay in reality for

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something that they can't physically

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hold even though ebooks have taken over

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from the printed word in on Amazon

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things like that in terms of sales the

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still reluctant but people can't people

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want to change people want to have some

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impact and I say it's people in the

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audience well the idea of the third of

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all monies be ring-fenced of UFO causes

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could do that because if you have lots

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of people doing it then you

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you can appear for a lot more Bonn

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conference or two conferences you can

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then start taking full page ads are in

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national newspapers where we don't need

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a reporter to tell us the facts we can

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just put facts in the newspaper and buy

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it can you imagine having a paying five

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grand and say I want a page in The Times

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well need an article then what we won't

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need a reporter to put their own bias on

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it we just put facts and figures out the

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full page but that's what we could do in

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time and people want to make a

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difference well the difference is you

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pay you for depends a week is what it

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works out the more people subscribe the

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more that probably is of causes I get

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money towards allied pies cancer feed I

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get donations to various documentary

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features cosmic whistleblowers all about

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Roswell the last rose welding give

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donations so it's already working but I

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get frustrated because people claim to

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be interested in this subject but if we

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were really interested could pay a few

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pens for the common era of their

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subjective and I'm trying to do it not

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to make millions for me I'm not really

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interested i'm not selling dvds I've got

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some merchandise it just helped I'm not

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out to make a lot of money but I want to

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try to make a different difference in

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the way people perceive this subject

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because anybody who thinks that this is

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Looney tune time which is what most

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people believe outside of this room that

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they're the ones who are subtly

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blindfolded so quite a lot of the people

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in this room said that they've never

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seen me before well that kind of tells

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me that I don't know that much about the

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subject because in Britain they

273
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shouldn't kind of like recognize me as

274
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one of the heads of the subject in this

275
00:13:41,410 --> 00:13:37,070
country he can it tells me that there's

276
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a disconnect the lots of people can go

277
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to a million websites on the internet

278
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and I get quite angry this because they

279
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become what i call the answer expert oh

280
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that's that yeah

281
00:13:58,920 --> 00:13:54,910
they don't have to move the books at all

282
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but they take on the role of yeah I'm

283
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the expert and they become

284
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:04,150
self-perpetuating because they then

285
00:14:10,260 --> 00:14:07,600
launch their on-site without ever doing

286
00:14:12,210 --> 00:14:10,270
any proper research without ever really

287
00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:12,220
knowing what's good and bad the wheat

288
00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:15,190
from the chaff and they put more

289
00:14:19,770 --> 00:14:17,710
disinformation out there so on the

290
00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:19,780
internet there are some very good

291
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:25,750
websites but George Lee who landed the

292
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:31,120
proper built majority are not very good

293
00:14:36,630 --> 00:14:33,490
because there's no evidential background

294
00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:36,640
to them and of course with my kind of

295
00:14:42,890 --> 00:14:39,310
background this is the only way I can

296
00:14:46,770 --> 00:14:42,900
present evidence through evidential eyes

297
00:14:48,690 --> 00:14:46,780
yeah yep so that's the basis that I try

298
00:14:50,730 --> 00:14:48,700
to do it so what I'm trying to do is

299
00:14:52,590 --> 00:14:50,740
different from all of the other side's

300
00:14:53,730 --> 00:14:52,600
someone doing it similarly but they

301
00:14:55,980 --> 00:14:53,740
haven't got my kind of police background

302
00:14:58,500 --> 00:14:55,990
I know what evidence is and what would

303
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:58,510
stand up in a court of law for example

304
00:15:03,020 --> 00:15:01,120
and you'll back me up on this if for

305
00:15:05,940 --> 00:15:03,030
example this is a former police officer

306
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:05,950
if he was driving on tonight and he

307
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:08,320
dubbed him one too many drinks and he

308
00:15:13,170 --> 00:15:09,730
got pulled by the place if you want one

309
00:15:15,450 --> 00:15:13,180
of his bed and went off but basically if

310
00:15:16,950 --> 00:15:15,460
he got pulled and the suspect you drink

311
00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:16,960
driving than ask him to do a breath test

312
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:20,260
this a better blow into this Brett yeah

313
00:15:26,250 --> 00:15:23,050
if he believed positive on the little

314
00:15:27,780 --> 00:15:26,260
handle meter that say you're positive

315
00:15:29,370 --> 00:15:27,790
you're under arrest that then taking

316
00:15:31,890 --> 00:15:29,380
back to a police station a man police

317
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:31,900
station and let's say blow into this big

318
00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:36,610
machine and in top savita you're over

319
00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:39,910
the limit what does it produce it

320
00:15:46,410 --> 00:15:43,300
produces a printout that says chemical

321
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:46,420
analysis you are over the limit what

322
00:15:51,380 --> 00:15:49,360
goes to court as the evidence that

323
00:15:54,570 --> 00:15:51,390
convicts you will drink doubted that

324
00:15:57,420 --> 00:15:54,580
piece a better held a pig car's a piece

325
00:16:00,420 --> 00:15:57,430
of documentary evidence that says I'm

326
00:16:02,670 --> 00:16:00,430
not there you blew positive now tell me

327
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:02,680
what's the difference between telemetry

328
00:16:07,530 --> 00:16:03,970
data

329
00:16:11,309 --> 00:16:07,540
from an f-16 chasing the UF for for 75

330
00:16:16,410 --> 00:16:11,319
minutes in a dogfight over Belgium where

331
00:16:20,819 --> 00:16:16,420
all of the cockpit instrumentation was

332
00:16:24,050 --> 00:16:20,829
recorded on video all of the dogfight

333
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:24,060
was confirmed on seven different

334
00:16:33,780 --> 00:16:29,290
airports three military for civilian on

335
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:33,790
all telemetry data second-by-second over

336
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:36,850
75 minutes replace to a printout that

337
00:16:42,259 --> 00:16:39,370
you can pull up in a hypothetical court

338
00:16:44,819 --> 00:16:42,269
of law on the de bit of US law reality

339
00:16:48,090 --> 00:16:44,829
then on that telemetry data it would say

340
00:16:52,259 --> 00:16:48,100
that during that don't fight where 20 16

341
00:16:55,369 --> 00:16:52,269
is chasing the UFO basically at one

342
00:16:59,759 --> 00:16:55,379
point on several gauges but at one point

343
00:17:03,179 --> 00:16:59,769
it goes straight up in the air jumps

344
00:17:04,919 --> 00:17:03,189
5,000 feet in three seconds straight and

345
00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:04,929
then it does a sharp angle and drops

346
00:17:09,620 --> 00:17:07,120
down to the ground and at the bottom the

347
00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:09,630
ground it then does a right angle turn

348
00:17:16,770 --> 00:17:13,510
then L is it before impacted but

349
00:17:18,929 --> 00:17:16,780
the point it did the L share how many

350
00:17:21,929 --> 00:17:18,939
g's do you think he was pulling don't

351
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:21,939
mind the maximum for stealth even now is

352
00:17:30,330 --> 00:17:27,250
11 to 12 G's it was telemetry data 35

353
00:17:33,450 --> 00:17:30,340
G's should that not be on the six

354
00:17:36,750 --> 00:17:33,460
o'clock news hard evidence no difference

355
00:17:39,630 --> 00:17:36,760
from that drink DRO please but then he

356
00:17:42,090 --> 00:17:39,640
what lies yourself why is not not on the

357
00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:42,100
six-pointed so it's very easy to prove

358
00:17:47,370 --> 00:17:44,350
that there is a mainstream bias against

359
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:47,380
the best evidence ok so that's the

360
00:17:53,310 --> 00:17:51,280
introduction so this is my take in the

361
00:17:58,110 --> 00:17:53,320
first hour just those people who are I

362
00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:58,120
blades Polikoff tree lat lunges but the

363
00:18:04,049 --> 00:18:01,840
order of play tonight is first hour is

364
00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:04,059
this lecture of circumstantial evidence

365
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:07,750
case for ET extraterrestrial then we'll

366
00:18:11,730 --> 00:18:09,850
have a break and then i will talk i'll

367
00:18:13,169 --> 00:18:11,740
show you some video clips that I think

368
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:13,179
you're very interested talk about all

369
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:16,410
the things and then finally if we've got

370
00:18:21,770 --> 00:18:18,690
time we'll do some Q&A questions answers

371
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:21,780
okay so first part circumstantial

372
00:18:27,740 --> 00:18:24,810
evidence case piece of gadget switch on

373
00:18:33,050 --> 00:18:27,750
is it working oh I've got it is right

374
00:18:35,770 --> 00:18:33,060
before I talk to you about UFOs if I'm

375
00:18:37,580 --> 00:18:35,780
going to talk to you about evidence

376
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,590
you've got to have a bit of an

377
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:39,840
understand of what evidence is in terms

378
00:18:44,450 --> 00:18:41,280
of what could get you into a court of

379
00:18:47,030 --> 00:18:44,460
law how you present the evidence well in

380
00:18:49,610 --> 00:18:47,040
reality there's only three basic forms

381
00:18:51,980 --> 00:18:49,620
of evidence there's real evidence which

382
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:51,990
is cold physical evidence it's called

383
00:18:55,730 --> 00:18:54,450
relevance which is the gun the knife if

384
00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:55,740
you think of a murder scenario the

385
00:19:00,080 --> 00:18:58,170
murder weapon something physical if I

386
00:19:05,030 --> 00:19:00,090
butter this lady with glasses on the

387
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:05,040
front row and you all witness it you'd

388
00:19:09,260 --> 00:19:07,530
see that and I murder with it fracture

389
00:19:11,660 --> 00:19:09,270
the skull then that would become the

390
00:19:13,220 --> 00:19:11,670
murder weapon yes that murder weapon

391
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:13,230
will be held up in murder trial and as

392
00:19:20,030 --> 00:19:17,370
gh1 exhibit this was the implement used

393
00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:20,040
to stare this lady's hidden because

394
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:24,510
you've never seen them before absolutely

395
00:19:27,890 --> 00:19:26,160
true that that's what we do isn't it

396
00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:27,900
you've all seen the bill any please

397
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:31,110
documentary any police drama whilst they

398
00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:32,880
they don't present it very well that's

399
00:19:37,490 --> 00:19:35,550
the best book so physical evidence

400
00:19:40,970 --> 00:19:37,500
anything that you can physically pick up

401
00:19:44,090 --> 00:19:40,980
tangible yeah even if it was you were

402
00:19:46,940 --> 00:19:44,100
him by a motor boat in the water you

403
00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:46,950
swim in the paddling in Spain and some

404
00:19:51,530 --> 00:19:49,230
believe opacity a hit by the propeller

405
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:51,540
in you you killed but you can't

406
00:19:55,940 --> 00:19:54,330
physically pick the bottle bring it into

407
00:19:58,250 --> 00:19:55,950
cop what you can do is take a photograph

408
00:19:59,960 --> 00:19:58,260
at the bar photograph of the blades with

409
00:20:02,690 --> 00:19:59,970
the blood on the blades blah blah blah

410
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:02,700
that then becomes the documentary

411
00:20:08,780 --> 00:20:06,000
evidence that is produced in call this

412
00:20:10,730 --> 00:20:08,790
book the mary elizabeth hit this lady on

413
00:20:13,610 --> 00:20:10,740
such a such a day and this was the

414
00:20:15,620 --> 00:20:13,620
forensic blood analysis of photographs

415
00:20:17,470 --> 00:20:15,630
of the blood on the propeller blades etc

416
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:17,480
so that's how evidence guessing the cop

417
00:20:22,610 --> 00:20:20,400
so you've got the real evidence and then

418
00:20:23,690 --> 00:20:22,620
you would talk about documentary

419
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:23,700
evidence

420
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:26,570
anything so if you think about fraud

421
00:20:31,220 --> 00:20:29,250
yeah somebody's applaud you credit card

422
00:20:33,049 --> 00:20:31,230
and then you look on your monthly

423
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:33,059
statement and see that six grams gone

424
00:20:38,690 --> 00:20:36,210
you go words I never done that we got

425
00:20:41,060 --> 00:20:38,700
the bank's on this planet that produces

426
00:20:44,210 --> 00:20:41,070
a pet trailer evidence is produced in

427
00:20:46,659 --> 00:20:44,220
court to get you your money back because

428
00:20:51,129 --> 00:20:46,669
you don't actually spend the six month

429
00:20:53,629 --> 00:20:51,139
that's the nature so physical evidence

430
00:20:57,919 --> 00:20:53,639
documentary evidence anything in written

431
00:21:01,850 --> 00:20:57,929
form piece of paper but the main thing

432
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:01,860
that we have all around the world is

433
00:21:12,259 --> 00:21:08,760
down to witness testimony which produces

434
00:21:13,879 --> 00:21:12,269
two things if I go back to the stove in

435
00:21:15,860 --> 00:21:13,889
this loaded headed just use it as an

436
00:21:18,529 --> 00:21:15,870
example I always do this pixel pick on

437
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:18,539
something in a nice way but illustrate

438
00:21:26,899 --> 00:21:22,970
the point if i watch i was this lady now

439
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:26,909
should that stand or it practice cool

440
00:21:31,370 --> 00:21:29,039
she dies bleeds to death in this room i

441
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:31,380
hope you sleep okay tonight but

442
00:21:40,570 --> 00:21:36,690
basically if that happened what would

443
00:21:42,740 --> 00:21:40,580
likely happen it all go on lawsuit

444
00:21:45,289 --> 00:21:42,750
somebody probably wrestle me to the

445
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:45,299
ground arrest me citizen's arrest but

446
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:47,039
should be dead you'll seen it you become

447
00:21:53,419 --> 00:21:51,360
witnesses to murder yes so what would

448
00:21:55,490 --> 00:21:53,429
happen please stop all come in and God

449
00:21:57,470 --> 00:21:55,500
right what did you say what did you see

450
00:22:00,019 --> 00:21:57,480
they do but they're never do it in a

451
00:22:03,169 --> 00:22:00,029
group you take an assigned individually

452
00:22:06,139 --> 00:22:03,179
police officer 121 tell me what you saw

453
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:06,149
so you get say there's 50 people in this

454
00:22:14,149 --> 00:22:09,840
room 50 different statements about what

455
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:14,159
they saw and each perception of what you

456
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:17,690
saw will be slightly different

457
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:21,570
perception is very strange and the

458
00:22:25,639 --> 00:22:24,210
skeptics will say Oh Chris French you

459
00:22:28,159 --> 00:22:25,649
rarely see me I'm telling when Chris

460
00:22:30,510 --> 00:22:28,169
frankly well on skeptic he didn't

461
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:30,520
survive early

462
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:33,410
he will i give the arts just every all

463
00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:35,600
UFO and sold people mistaken Scientology

464
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:37,790
blah blah blah let's go back to our

465
00:22:44,110 --> 00:22:41,120
scenario now you're all witnesses but

466
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:44,120
somebody in the back row will not see as

467
00:22:50,140 --> 00:22:47,600
much as somebody on the front row jump

468
00:22:51,730 --> 00:22:50,150
make sense so your perception will be

469
00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:51,740
slightly different but here's the thing

470
00:23:01,020 --> 00:22:55,280
with perception when we check out 50

471
00:23:04,150 --> 00:23:01,030
students you'll all give basically wide

472
00:23:05,710 --> 00:23:04,160
descriptions of me see if I've just done

473
00:23:09,550 --> 00:23:05,720
it yet and I'm not stood in front of you

474
00:23:11,140 --> 00:23:09,560
so you'd only see me briefly some would

475
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:11,150
say I would black someone say I was

476
00:23:17,140 --> 00:23:13,130
writing some would say oh 6-foot someone

477
00:23:20,770 --> 00:23:17,150
say o 643 that's the perception errors

478
00:23:25,180 --> 00:23:20,780
that we make but you'd all say I saw a

479
00:23:28,180 --> 00:23:25,190
man stand up and hit saw him hit this

480
00:23:30,790 --> 00:23:28,190
woman with something and she fell to the

481
00:23:34,510 --> 00:23:30,800
floor something like that so if we think

482
00:23:37,300 --> 00:23:34,520
about it whilst our perceptions may vary

483
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:37,310
a great deal in terms of description

484
00:23:43,270 --> 00:23:39,770
physical descriptions of a person a

485
00:23:46,510 --> 00:23:43,280
place someone good some about the

486
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:46,520
general story that man hits lady on

487
00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:49,610
front row she collapses man runs off me

488
00:23:54,490 --> 00:23:51,310
going out the back door kind of thing

489
00:23:57,550 --> 00:23:54,500
the general story would be accurate from

490
00:23:59,860 --> 00:23:57,560
the 50 witnesses but your perceptions in

491
00:24:04,420 --> 00:23:59,870
terms of personal descriptions they're

492
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:04,430
very wildly but this is what Chris

493
00:24:10,330 --> 00:24:06,770
French the skeptics dogs say that the

494
00:24:12,220 --> 00:24:10,340
general story is accurate and if you

495
00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:12,230
don't know the person sat next to you

496
00:24:17,860 --> 00:24:14,960
then you what's called independent

497
00:24:19,570 --> 00:24:17,870
witnesses they're the best witnesses we

498
00:24:21,250 --> 00:24:19,580
can have because you have no axe to

499
00:24:23,740 --> 00:24:21,260
grind you just happen to be in the wrong

500
00:24:26,980 --> 00:24:23,750
place wrong time and you see something

501
00:24:28,930 --> 00:24:26,990
yeah so if we get 50 people who don't